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Drrrrraaaaaaaaaaammmaaa! - Adventures in Engineering — LiveJournal
The wanderings of a modern ronin.

Ben Cantrick
  Date: 2006-09-27 00:00
  Subject:   Drrrrraaaaaaaaaaammmaaa!
Public
  Mood:amused

http://forum.mythbustersfanclub.com/index.php/topic,7368.30.html

Hahahhaa.

(Sorry, you won't be able to see it unless you're a cash-donating member of the MBFC. I'll see about a mirror after work...)

Edit: And on the same topic... And furthermore...


Edit2: Okay, Pa-chan's gun is nice and clean and oiled, and will sit happily for ten years or so without need of further maintenance. Phew.

So, I'd like to post the details, and bring absolutely everything I said out into the light where you can judge it for yourself... but guess what? MBFC disabled my account, and banned my IP from the webserver. Hehehe. Pity, it was quite the good little rant session. Whapped on a LOT of stupid butts and hurt many small minds. But apparently calling someone a "jackass" is too much for them to deal with. Ha!

But let this be a lesson to everyone: If you say things that those in power do not like, they WILL silence you any way they can. They do not like it when conflicting opinions appear - especially when those conflicting opinions are backed up with copious amounts of research and linkage making your point highly verifiable and supportable. It hurts their little minds to consider that maybe everything they believe is just flat-out wrong. They want to ignore it, and wish it would just go away. Which normally would be fine... but the line gets drawn when the things they advocate are killing innocent people (some of them American soldiers) every single day.

Oh well, no great loss.


Edit3: And again...
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  User: nickhalfasleep
  Date: 2006-09-27 00:07 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)
"The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."

You're such a tease
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The Perfect Girl
  User: mercyspeaks
  Date: 2006-09-27 01:01 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)
Yah really!
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Ben Cantrick
  User: mackys
  Date: 2006-09-27 01:05 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)
I'm sorry. I really will try and mirror it after work. Be warned though, it's long.
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  User: (Anonymous)
  Date: 2006-09-27 09:36 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)
They deleted it, man.

G.
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  User: (Anonymous)
  Date: 2006-09-27 09:39 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)
Forgot to add that you might have expected it. The owner thinks of it as a public sight (mainly it is). You just have to join to see the place. Catering to the public means she must maintain a status quo and shit like that can't go on. I don't know if my data is up to date, but weren't you a moderator there? That might have had more to do with it than anything else. You know how to get a hold of me.

G.
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Ben Cantrick
  User: mackys
  Date: 2006-09-27 18:30 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)
The owner thinks of it as a public sight (mainly it is).

In this case, I can't say I agree, since the thread was posted in the "Contributing Members ONLY" board. Takes a heck of a lot more than just signing up to see posts there.

Catering to the public means she must maintain a status quo and shit like that can't go on.

Yeah, no room for conscience for actual facts when you're "catering to the public". Heheh.

I don't know if my data is up to date, but weren't you a moderator there?

No, I turned in my mod privs about um... a week, week and a half ago? I felt like freedom of expression was being unreasonably stifled and I couldn't go along with being part of what I saw as an inherently corrupt moderation system.

You know how to get a hold of me.

Actually I don't think I do. Send me an email, mackys@dhp.com.
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  User: (Anonymous)
  Date: 2006-09-27 21:32 (UTC)
  Subject:   oh?
You gave up your mod status because of a confrontation over the removal of a sexist statement. A statement that you knew full well was not appreciated anywhere on the board.

Your account was not suspended because of the mud slinging. Your account was banned and blocked because you had the audacity to state you were going to mirror a conversation on a private section of the board without even asking those who were involved. Copying your statements and placing them elsewhere on the internet is fine, copying other people's comments without their permission is not.

Only those people who feel threatened in their position start calling names and using profanity. You were told to take a break from the thread in order to prevent the name calling and profanity. Evidently, you felt it was necessary to continue to prod until something blew. Your mistake.

It's too bad that you felt you needed to lower yourself to that. Nor still likes you.
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Ben Cantrick
  User: mackys
  Date: 2006-09-27 22:08 (UTC)
  Subject:   Re: oh?
You gave up your mod status because of a confrontation over the removal of a sexist statement. A statement that you knew full well was not appreciated anywhere on the board.

You are correct. I said something that Nor didn't approve of, and she axed it. I felt that was unreasonable, and decided I was going to protest by resigning my modship.

Your account was not suspended because of the mud slinging. Your account was banned and blocked because you had the audacity to state you were going to mirror a conversation on a private section of the board without even asking those who were involved. Copying your statements and placing them elsewhere on the internet is fine, copying other people's comments without their permission is not.

By banning my account and blocking my IP, the MBFC has also taken away my right to repost my *very own personal statements.*

Given that, by your own admission here, that is now an established fact, would you care to defend the MBFC against my (evidently accurate) charge that they are censoring unfairly?

(As always, I am not calling into question their RIGHT to censor in whatever way they want to. It's a private space, and they have a right to do whatever the hell they want. But let's not kid ourselves about who has the moral high ground here...)

Only those people who feel threatened in their position start calling names and using profanity.

Some of us are just pissed off at the endless, mindless, conformist sheeple stupidity around us, that's getting the best and bravest Americans killed every single day. Sometimes getting in the stupidest people's faces is the only way to get them to actually THINK.

Threatened?? I was trashing everyone in that thread left and right. I was *winning*. Why would I be threatened??

'Nother thing you might want to remember is that first, I didn't start that thread. I just layed the smack down on some stupid, self-rightous idiots who claim one set of values but act completely at odds with them. And secondly, remember that in my very first post to the thread, I said flat out that I knew I wasn't going to convince anyone. Don't you think I knew exactly what I was doing?

You were told to take a break from the thread in order to prevent the name calling and profanity. Evidently, you felt it was necessary to continue to prod until something blew. Your mistake.

We will see if it was a mistake, or if history bears me out. I am not very worried at this point...

I wrote in another post a bit back that when people are so factually and intellectually bankrupt that the only argument they can make against me is: "I don't like your tone!" or "You're just not nice!"... then I pretty much consider that a win. Shows that they have nothing to say and no actual argument to make.
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  User: (Anonymous)
  Date: 2006-09-28 03:16 (UTC)
  Subject:   Re: oh?
The comment you made was something that you knew was not welcome on the board because it caused the one person you made the comment about uncomfortable.

If you can not keep your head or tongue in a civil discussion, the only thing people see is the crass language and name calling. Your argument goes right out the window. If you were winning, why lower yourself?

Politics is a very hotly debated subject and I have yet to see one person sway another by cursing at them.

No, you can not repost your own words, because she feels that with your desire to post others without their consent, you should be denied access.

If "winning" consists of angering people you mean to sway, you've done that. If winning means that much to you that you lose friends, I pity you.
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Ben Cantrick
  User: mackys
  Date: 2006-09-28 08:07 (UTC)
  Subject:   Re: oh?
The comment you made was something that you knew was not welcome on the board because it caused the one person you made the comment about uncomfortable.

Yup, and we're in my LJ now, and I can post "Kari is hot" all freakin' day long and there's not a damn thing you or anyone else can do about it, now is there?

Generally I never bother posting that, because doing so is so unbelievably inane. It's like posting "the sky is blue!" or "Mythbusters is cool!" - well duh! But the fact that someone's pwecious widdle feewings might get all hurt and shit, because someone else posted a fact that is bleedingly obvious to anyone with two brain cells... it's just mind-blowing to me that anyone would feel the need to censor that. You have two choices about uncomfortable truths: face them, or run from them. When it comes to "Kari is hot", Nor prefers to run. Okay, her choice. But not mine. And I will not be part of a mod staff whose policy is pretending that the elephant in the living room doesn't exist.

'Sides, Kari went and quite consciously got herself a photo shoot in Maxim. And boy did THAT hurt Nor's little head. Kari knew exactly what she was doing. And she knows exactly the effect she has on guys. How could she NOT? This whole thing about Nor making herself the self-appointed guardian of Kari's "virtue" or "feelings" is dowright silly. Kari's a big girl (hell, she has a fiance), and she can certainly lay the hurt down on the fanboys herself. This attempt to treat Kari like she's a helpless little girl, who will wither away to nothing if some idiot fanboy pants at her, is just plain insulting. Give Kari a little credit for once and treat her like what she is - a fucking adult.

If you can not keep your head or tongue in a civil discussion, the only thing people see is the crass language and name calling. Your argument goes right out the window. If you were winning, why lower yourself?

One of the more annyoing tendencies (to me personally) that I've seen in the population of the MBFC, is that some people seem to have a real hard time with reading comprehension...

Did you not just read the comment you replied to? Cuz I answered that question right there in that comment. Shall I point it out? Does "Sometimes getting in the stupidest people's faces is the only way to get them to actually THINK." ring a bell?

And while we're on the subject... You dislike my language because you find it "crass." You're absolutely right, it is crass. And shocking. I very much like the profanity I employ, precisely because it is a powerful linguistic tool which allows me to make my statements with sufficient impact that it actually forces people to THINK about what I'm posting, instead of just dismissing my words when they doesn't fit into their neat little world view.

Politics is a very hotly debated subject and I have yet to see one person sway another by cursing at them.

Well thank you, Captain Obvious! Did you also not read this in the comment you replied to:

"Remember that in my very first post to the thread, I said flat out that I knew I wasn't going to convince anyone."

And let me also say this, AGAIN...

"Don't you think I knew exactly what I was doing?"


And while we're talking about hot debates - Nor's whole thing about "you need a timeout to calm down"? That was total projection. She was hot under the collar because of the whole thing, she needed a timeout, and she knew that. Then she projected it right onto me, and blamed me when her temper blew.

She is the one incapable of discussing difficult issues without letting her emotions run away, not me. I've be discussing this stuff for at least a couple of years now, right here. There have been some epic flame wars. Just read back into this LJ for politics posts...
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Ben Cantrick
  User: mackys
  Date: 2006-09-28 08:08 (UTC)
  Subject:   cont'd
No, you can not repost your own words, because she feels that with your desire to post others without their consent, you should be denied access.

Alright, let her stand on her record. Sounds like she's afraid of the clear light of day to me. Someone with no shame at what they said likely wouldn't flip out about the world seeing what they wrote. I'm far more than willing to have my words reposted for the entire world to see. And I see no reason why she should be so freaky about it.

And since we're on the subject of being freaked out... You know, she could have just emailed me, PM'd, posted a comment here, whatever - and asked me not to post the thread. Or just asked me to strip everyone else's names off it. I probably would have honored that request. As far as the stripping other people's names off it, I still will.

If "winning" consists of angering people you mean to sway, you've done that. If winning means that much to you that you lose friends, I pity you.

You don't know me very well, so let me esplain this to you: I pick and choose my friends verrryyy carefully. And people who get all huffy when I show them the truths that they dislike... do not get to be my friends. I have no truck with dogmatics who view their personal beliefs as a higher god than actual truth.

As for winning, I honestly don't care if you think I'm wrong. I'm far more than sufficiently convinced of the correctness of my position not to mind if people doubt me. I tried to present some of the facts that many months ago led me to my conclusion, and what did I get? (flapping mouth immitation with hand) "We have to respect the President" - "We're winning in Iraq" - "How dare some gasbag at the UN criticise us!" The same old empty-headed "patriotic" BS that just Rove loves to feed to the 52%.

But none of that touches me. I'm used to nearly everyone being deep in denial, telling me I'm wrong, etc. But what *does* piss me off, and what will get me ranting every time, is when someone comes along pretending to represent the soldiers, pretending to know what's best for the USA, and claiming they have a lock on truth... when in fact they don't have the first damn clue. And they advocate actions, policies and attitudes that are fucking this country up as badly as it has been fucked since the great depression.

Worse than that, innocent people (many of them our soldiers) are dying every day because of these people's inability to face reality. And that... that IS worth losing friends for. Again, you don't know me very well, so there's no way you could know that I've *already* tossed out one since-highschool friendship over this issue.

We are, again, at the crossroads of a liberal vs. conservative value clash here. Conservatives value in-group approval, because... um, well, who really knows why anyone values what they value? But whatever the reason, liberals don't give a damn about being "in" with the "right people" if those people are enabling evil. So if you think these little emotional appeals will sway me, well, you're wrong.
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Ben Cantrick
  User: mackys
  Date: 2006-09-27 22:12 (UTC)
  Subject:   Re: oh?
It's too bad that you felt you needed to lower yourself to that. Nor still likes you.

Her feelings are her prerogative. I cannot change them, and would not wish to even if I could. But neither do her feelings change my conscience nor refute my principles.
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Ben Cantrick
  User: mackys
  Date: 2006-09-27 22:18 (UTC)
  Subject:   Re: oh?
You gave up your mod status because of a confrontation over the removal of a sexist statement. A statement that you knew full well was not appreciated anywhere on the board.

P.S., I am so sick and tired of insecure, pompus second wave feminists telling me that because I like girls, I am a bad, bad and evil person. Christ, is that ever obnoxious...
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The Perfect Girl
  User: mercyspeaks
  Date: 2006-09-28 14:56 (UTC)
  Subject:   Re: oh?
Oh gawd, totally! I hate the whole notion that women can't be sexual beings and be strong, independent, respected people at the same time.

What was it you said that was so goddamn sexist anyway? Because you said someone was hot? Sounds like someone else is just jealous.
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Ben Cantrick
  User: mackys
  Date: 2006-09-29 05:04 (UTC)
  Subject:   Re: oh?
Because you said someone was hot? Sounds like someone else is just jealous.

I honestly thing it's because they have stone-age values, not because they're jealous.
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Ben Cantrick
  User: mackys
  Date: 2006-09-27 18:03 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)
Ah, it figures... once again we see how people don't like being shown they're wrong. :P
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Pacchi
  User: pacchi
  Date: 2006-09-28 11:11 (UTC)
  Subject:   Glad to hear El Plinko is still happy
(don't worry, there's a new nickname for that Ruger every time I think about it)

Did you really get into trouble for declaring "Kari is hot" ? or was there more to the comment?

I mean, seems to me she's the type to take that sort of thing in stride. And if not, then it's up to her, or her close family members to take issue with the offender. Forum-family is nice and all, but it doesn't count.

Anyhow, nothing more to add really, Mackys' concise as usual.

- P
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Ben Cantrick
  User: mackys
  Date: 2006-09-28 21:39 (UTC)
  Subject:   Re: Glad to hear El Plinko is still happy
Glad to hear El Plinko is still happy.

I feel bad because I waited way too long before cleaning it the last time. This time it took me about two hours to clean it to the point where I couldn't find any more burned powder in it. Lots of trouble, but worth it. I'm just glad Mark doesn't come back from Hiroshima every weekend!

And don't get me started on how long it took to hone the edges of my swords back to a reasonable semblance of "sharp." Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!

Did you really get into trouble for declaring "Kari is hot" ? or was there more to the comment?

I believe my exact comment was: "Can I get an obligatory "Kari is hot" here? Yes, I thought so. ;]" written just under this screencap. I thought it was an amusing joke, but apparently not.

Anyhoo, "KIH" is not allowed at the MBFC. Seriously, it's policy that you're not allowed to say it.

Mackys' concise as usual.

After like ten posts, many of which are perliously near the LJ 6300 character comment limit, I don't think I can claim to be "concise".
A big ranty asshole, more like. ;]
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osmium_ocelot
  User: osmium_ocelot
  Date: 2006-09-28 16:50 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)
You know Ben, it just dawned on me... I figured out one of the problems that most of the human world has with people like you and me.

You and me, we value truth more than feelings.
They... they value feelings more than truth.

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Ben Cantrick
  User: mackys
  Date: 2006-09-28 21:45 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)

"The truth, no matter what."

Actually, I do try and respect people's feelings when possible. If they want to live in denial and it doesn't hurt anyone, then I think they have a right.

But that line gets crossed when some people's collosal ignorance is getting innocent people killed left and right.
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osmium_ocelot
  User: osmium_ocelot
  Date: 2006-09-29 00:59 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)
That's my point... We value truth more than feelings when it's important. They value feelings more than truth no matter what.
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  User: (Anonymous)
  Date: 2006-09-29 02:27 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)
It's a shame that all parties involved got into a heated argument that resulted in one losing their temper and resulting into name calling along with swearing. Here is a thought for you. Instead of trying so hard on selling your beliefs on others, listen to the other's beliefs and try to understand why they believe what they do. Stooping to name calling is a petty and childish act which should have been avoided at all costs.
I wasn't around while the discussion was being done but I did get the aftermath of it and going through the ENTIRE thread, I can point fingers to a couple of people. But as you stated, you were and admin and KNEW what the site rules were! Flaming of any threads, name calling and profanity are 3 of the KNOWN issues that took place within this thread you say you were "WINNING" at. I see no winners in this thread. I saw a bunch of useless quoting, useless belief pushing, flaming and childish name calling. Judging on the action taking against that thread, they were FAIR and JUST.
Also.....
As to your disagreement to the Kari comment, you KNOW as a past admin there that any kind of "Kari, Jamie, ECT... is hot, sexy ECT..." is NOT allowed by ANY member and was to be removed as soon as it is seen. This goes with posts, sig lines and within profile comments.
As I see it man, it looks to me like you wanted an argument and loved the fact that you were getting others heated up. Not only that, when you started to get slapped down, you got all pissy. Now you are only trying to get others to side on your behalf. I am not saying MBFC is right and you are wrong or vice versa! You were and admin and know how the site works and runs. This sort of thing should have never had happened by anyone.

Like I said, it's a shame
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Ben Cantrick
  User: mackys
  Date: 2006-09-29 04:49 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)
Almost everything in this comment has been covered in previous replies, and I don't feel like repeating myself. But, there is one thing worth saying:

you were and admin and KNEW what the site rules were! Flaming of any threads, name calling and profanity are 3 of the KNOWN issues that took place within this thread [...] ou KNOW as a past admin there that any kind of "Kari, Jamie, ECT... is hot, sexy ECT..." is NOT allowed by ANY member and was to be removed as soon as it is seen.

There seems to be an implication here that I should have "known better" about all this stuff because I had been a mod. And therein lies the problem for me personally: I really don't have any good reason why I was a mod so long.

I knew it was wrong. And it was eating at me the whole time. And I just never got off my lazy ass and did what I knew was necessary until events shoved the hard truth in my face.

I have no excuse. I was simply wrong. I should never have accepted a position as a mod. (Or at least I should have resigned it at the first second I noticed that the rules were blatantly against my values.) But I stuck around because it was fun and the people were cool.

As with almost everything in my life, I must learn the hard way. When I fuck up and do something totally boneheaded, all I can do is admit straight up that I was totally wrong, take whatever action I can to correct things, and then walk away a bit older and wiser. Being a mod at MBFC was such a mistake. Mea Culpa.

Now you are only trying to get others to side on your behalf.

It bums me out that if I say this is absolutely untrue, and try to defend the honor and integrity of the other people who have posted to this thread, I just end up looking like a big fat liar. So I must regretfully remain silent against this charge. That fucking sucks.
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  User: nickhalfasleep
  Date: 2006-09-30 01:02 (UTC)
  Subject:   (edit)
So it's verboten to comment that the emperor has no clothes, or that you'd like to see the emperor, sans clothes.

Eh, not your kind of crowd. Good on ya for NOT abusing your mod privlages and keeping it at a user level. I hate it when admins use their power for personal axes to grind.

Speaking of which, is the sword better from my abuse?
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Ben Cantrick
  User: mackys
  Date: 2006-09-30 01:40 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)
Speaking of which, is the sword better from my abuse?

Don't go there. You'll just feel worse. ;]

You need to think of it like this: It's just a part of having a sword that you actually use, instead of hanging on a wall. The pretty finish is going to get scratched, the edge is going to get chipped, the handle will eventually get worn out and loose. This is as inevitable as the oil in a car engine degrading with use.

The solution is not to hide the thing away and get all bummed out when the inevitable happens. It's to take a more zen attitude, and look at it as part of a larger cycle, and learn how to fix it when it breaks. When I bought the sword I also bought some very good high-grit diamond files recommended to me by the good folks over at http://forums.swordforum.com. When the edge needs honing, I don't cry over the fact that it's screwed up, I just go hone it back to decent shape.

Now I just need to get some good polish so I can buff out scratches...
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  User: nickhalfasleep
  Date: 2006-09-30 01:59 (UTC)
  Subject:   (no subject)
Happy Birthday old man, mackys, slayer of zucchini
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